Emmy-winning filmmaker Drea Cooper joins Frame By Frame to break down his latest documentary, The Master’s Wait, about Rory McIlroy, The Masters, and the long emotional road to winning at Augusta National Golf Club. In this conversation, Drea shares what it was like being at the Masters for Rory’s latest win, how the film came together, and how he approached telling a story that was bigger than golf. If you’re interested in sports documentaries, Rory McIlroy, The Masters, Augusta National, or the craft of documentary filmmaking, this episode is for you.
0:00 Cold open: Augusta goes from dream to haunted house
0:52 Intro: Drea Cooper on The Master’s Wait and Rory’s back-to-back moment
2:09 What it was like being at the Masters in person
2:45 Augusta with no phones and why it feels different
4:37 How The Master’s Wait came together
6:19 Drea’s sports background and prepping to tell Rory’s story
9:00 What Rory McIlroy was like to work with in a documentary setting
10:33 Filming re-creations at Augusta and visualizing Rory’s mental game
14:44 The “pinch me” moments filming with Rory at Augusta and in Northern Ireland
19:30 Rory’s parents, the archive, and the interviews that unlocked the film
26:38 Why Drea chose a direct-to-camera interview style
28:44 The universal lesson in Rory’s story: persistence, instinct, and not giving up
32:06 How Drea has built range across documentaries and commercial directing
33:39 Advice for first-time feature documentary directors
36:11 Imposter syndrome, trusting your instincts, and staying open to curveballs
When You're Ready
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🎥: Daniel's Recommended Production Gear List
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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:03:14
DREA
So he had this fascination with Augusta to begin with.
00:00:03:16 - 00:00:13:13
DREA
And so for a place to go from, you know, this Shangri la, this beautiful, this beautiful ideal to, you know, at its lowest point, like it became a haunted house.
00:00:13:17 - 00:00:29:08
DREA
that if you can hone in on your instinct and be open to your instinct, knowing that like folks are going to question that and they're going to, you know, interrogate that instinct and sometimes for the right reasons, you know, and you do need to interrogate, you know, your own ideas.
00:00:29:08 - 00:00:33:23
DREA
But there's there's this instinct. And I think you got to stay true to that feeling.
00:00:34:01 - 00:00:43:04
DANIEL
but that's like a filmmaker's dream to just shoot at Augusta with Rory and former Masters champ is probably like the one Hall pass you can do to to film that.
00:00:43:06 - 00:00:49:12
DREA
Yeah. It was I mean, look, every every, every day we got to film with worry was a pinch me moment.
00:00:49:13 - 00:00:51:20
Unknown
Music.
00:00:51:22 - 00:01:17:19
DANIEL
Welcome back to the Frame by Frame podcast. I'm your host, Daniel Mango, where I break down the world of filmmaking. I know I was on a little bit of a break, but I am so excited to dive back into today's episode. We have Emmy Award winning filmmaker Drey Cooper on the show. He's going to talk to us about his latest film, The Master's Way, which is just incredibly timely because it's about the 2025 win for Rory McIlroy.
00:01:17:19 - 00:01:19:02
DANIEL
And Rory just went back to
00:01:19:06 - 00:01:40:21
DANIEL
back and won the other day, and Dre was actually there on site for this. As a fan, getting to enjoy the Masters. So I'm really excited for our conversation. And here's the next episode of Frame by Frame. Today's guest is an Emmy winning filmmaker and commercial director, Dre Cooper. We're going to chat about his latest film, The Master's Way, featuring Rory McIlroy.
00:01:40:21 - 00:02:09:11
DANIEL
It's the number one documentary on Prime Video right now, so definitely check it out. Dre has built, super long, diverse career, and we're really excited to chat with him about his latest project and more importantly, excited because he literally just got off from Augusta and Dre. We agreed to talk about this before, you know, before the tournament and now I'm like any great story, I'm excited to hear about this incredible weekend you had of Rory going back to back.
00:02:09:13 - 00:02:32:15
DREA
Yeah, I mean, first of all, thanks for having me. Daniel. Yeah, it was a incredible, incredible experience. Is my first time attending the actual tournament. We were fortunate enough through the through the project to do a scout at Augusta, walk the course and then, of course, go back with Rory to do some filming. But to be there for the tournament was an incredible, incredible experience.
00:02:32:15 - 00:02:45:18
DREA
I mean, you know, words can't do it justice. But suffice it to say, as I was mentioning earlier, by far by Country Mile, the most exciting, most beautiful sporting event I've ever experienced.
00:02:45:20 - 00:02:53:08
DANIEL
And yeah, I'm curious, there's honestly very like few places. What was it like to be without a phone for a couple days?
00:02:53:10 - 00:03:23:04
DREA
I mean, honestly easy. Yeah. I'm also I'm like such. I'm so anti phone myself that like, I'm looking for an excuse to just like leave my phone somewhere. You know, I feel like we've become so dependent on it. And it's funny too. I'm just seeing all these, you know, comparisons on Instagram, right, where they're like screenshots of like, you know, when LeBron broke the scoring record and it's just like a million cameras or when you know Steph, Steph, you know, broke the three point record some million cameras.
00:03:23:04 - 00:03:43:12
DREA
And then it's like oh, and then there's Rory, you know winning his second Masters in a year. And it's just people. And everybody's just locked in and everyone's just looking. And and it and and it changes the way you experience the sport, the way you engage, obviously with what's in front of you. I mean, Rory said it in his, you know, sort of award speech.
00:03:43:12 - 00:03:59:14
DREA
He was just recounting how, like the fans there in Augusta really engage, you know, with the game of golf, play by play, shot by shot. There's a lot of other golf tournaments where it's like, yeah, it's cool, it's social. It's, you know, it's a real fun, nice atmosphere, but like you're kind of sort of looking at the golf.
00:03:59:16 - 00:04:14:03
DREA
This is just like shot by shot. And I saw that from day one literally, you know, and there's 91 one guys on that list. So it's special and it's special for many reasons. And one of which is just not having that phone in the way.
00:04:14:05 - 00:04:18:11
DANIEL
Well, the big question is, is there going to be a sequel now to the Masters? Wait.
00:04:18:16 - 00:04:36:18
DREA
Yeah, yeah yeah. No. That's funny. I mean, yeah, I was joking with my buddy Sam just the other day where he just texted me yesterday, and, Yeah, it was a while. We were like, yeah, what's the sequel? You know, we've got the masters, Wade. And then. Yeah, the sequel, part two, the, the, the short wait.
00:04:36:20 - 00:04:55:08
DANIEL
Well, let's get into the Masters way. I love, just the overall structure of it. Can you break down a little bit of how you went about your process into thinking about it? Because it's obviously like a specific moment in time, but there are those layering of backstory that's pretty important to it as well.
00:04:55:10 - 00:05:35:10
DREA
Yeah. I mean, you know, I think it was about being very clear and decisive right out the gate that the intention was never to tell the the Rory biopic. Right. It was never going to be the cradle tell present story of Rory McIlroy. It was very much about, you know, his his incredible run at the Masters in 2025 and more specifically about Sunday because Sunday 2025 goes down in not just Masters history, but I would I would argue golf history is, you know, one of the most dramatic, if not the most dramatic rounds imaginable.
00:05:35:12 - 00:05:55:06
DREA
And so it just felt like we had this kind of built in, dramatic engine around which we could then, you know, build and kind of like dive into backstory and unpack and kind of learn, you know, first and foremost, kind of, well, where did this dream even start? Like, who is where it. McIlroy. Right. Where did he come from?
00:05:55:06 - 00:06:15:10
DREA
How did this whole thing come about? But really trying to identify key points in the round where we could make those moves back in time and then come back to the present storyline. So that was always the sort of intention from the beginning. But the challenge was always, how do you make a film about a round of golf?
00:06:15:12 - 00:06:18:17
DREA
So I think that was that was always the big challenge.
00:06:18:19 - 00:06:35:19
DANIEL
And I'm curious, like on the on the personal side, your body of work, the range is quite vast, right. Like Flint Town is it feel very different doc than this and so is the money game. Did you have to like, dive in deep into golf? It sounds like you play a little bit. How did you go about as a director prepping for this?
00:06:35:21 - 00:06:49:14
DREA
Yeah. I mean, look, I'm a I'm a sports fanatic. I grew up, you know, playing baseball my whole life, you know, followed golf, played a little bit of golf. Grown up to, I spent some time in Atlanta. My family's from the South, and,
00:06:49:16 - 00:07:02:07
DREA
yeah, I was familiar with the game. I've gotten into it in the last couple of years. And so yeah, when I got the opportunity to be part of this project, it was like, you know, hands down jumped right on it.
00:07:02:09 - 00:07:25:13
DREA
But the prep was deep. I mean, you know, trying to really understand what went into, you know, not just not just for his sort of experience of the Masters last year in those four rounds and in particular Sunday. But really coming to understand just that, like just relationship he's had with this place. And I found that to be so fascinating.
00:07:25:15 - 00:07:40:15
DREA
The more you know, he and I got to talk, the more clear it became that, you know, this was this place to him that was like, as a kid, it was like the Shangri la of golf. Right? It was the most, you know, it was this place where, you know, he'd watched the Masters every year with his dad.
00:07:40:15 - 00:07:44:20
DREA
He would dream of this place, you know. And this is a kid,
00:07:44:22 - 00:07:58:05
DREA
like most young boys who, you know, and girls were fascinated with sport. Like, you know, he had the tiger posters and he would wrap his fingers with tape, just like Tiger, even though he didn't need the tape. So he had this fascination with Augusta to begin with.
00:07:58:07 - 00:08:21:22
DREA
And so for a place to go from, you know, this Shangri la, this beautiful, this beautiful ideal to, you know, at its lowest point, like it became a haunted house. And so I think that was that was the, the, the dramatic and narrative tension that we were constantly trying to figure out how to tease that out, you know, through his backstory and kind of understanding those years of coming up short.
00:08:22:00 - 00:08:27:22
DREA
But then how did then map it to the Sunday around, you know, accordingly. So let's just
00:08:27:22 - 00:08:42:08
DREA
say there was a lot of spinning plates, you know, were constantly, trying to navigate. And then you add to it, you know, the biggest challenge on the film was the timeline. You know, it was, fast and furious. And so when you add that pressure to it, there were days where we would joke that like, oh my God.
00:08:42:08 - 00:08:48:17
DREA
I mean, are we feeling more pressure? Or was worry feeling more pressure on that part? Because, man, it's, it's not an easy task when you're really.
00:08:48:17 - 00:08:55:12
DANIEL
Yeah. I mean, it's almost like right out of the year, a little less than a year on the delivery. So hats off to you and your post-production team.
00:08:55:14 - 00:08:59:09
DREA
Yeah, yeah. A, a lot of long nights for sure.
00:08:59:11 - 00:09:21:11
DANIEL
I'm curious. So I've worked with Rory one time in the commercial setting, and I was just, like, blown away. How, like, impressive and professional he was, where? It's like we told him what he was doing. He instantly got it, like, did a couple takes and was done, which is great in the commercial setting. But I'm curious, in the doc setting, you know, how it was building a rapport with him?
00:09:21:11 - 00:09:27:01
DANIEL
I mean, he's someone that's always kind of been pretty open who he is. But how was it working with him in that setting?
00:09:27:03 - 00:10:01:02
DREA
Yeah, I mean, look, you know, Rory is a pro, you know, on every level. And, you know, what you see in his press conferences is, is, you know, what you see behind the curtain as well. I mean, he's a guy that's willing to to to think hard and go deep, you know, and he's not afraid to, you know, open, open the closet and kind of, you know, pull out some of the ghosts and talk about some of those challenges that he's had in the past, with his game and, you know, with his own sort of mental approach to some of those kind of tougher points in his career.
00:10:01:02 - 00:10:24:08
DREA
And, yeah, I mean, he was he was super forthcoming. And look, these guys have crazy schedules. And so, you know, with our tight timeline and his crazy schedule, we were very fortunate. I mean, we managed to spend some time with him down in Jupiter, which is fantastic. And then had a chance to catch up with him and, and, Northern Ireland in his hometown of Hollywood and then and then Atlanta are in Augusta rather.
00:10:24:08 - 00:10:33:09
DREA
So it was great. Yeah. I mean, just a class act. I mean. Yeah, by far and away, you know, one of the great experiences working with a, with an athlete.
00:10:33:11 - 00:10:54:00
DANIEL
Yeah, I can imagine based on my limited experience with him. Now let's talk about the the production at Augusta. You know, I was freaking out seeing the recreations that you got to do there. I can imagine that was a pretty big deal. Was that something that was always on the table that did you bring it to it? Because I think it really enhanced the film quite a bit.
00:10:54:02 - 00:11:16:14
DREA
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, in thinking about, you know, how to, you know, thinking about sort of the cinematic language of the film and of the story. You know, it's one thing to see just sort of the broadcast right in the broadcast is and was inherently exciting and dramatic. And like the round speaks for itself. It absolutely does.
00:11:16:16 - 00:11:41:13
DREA
But I feel like the, the job of, of, of any storyteller and filmmaker is to try to, you know, sort of shed light on, on the unseen, you know, I mean, I look at it as like a process of alchemy, you know, like you're really trying to bring something to the to the for that, you know, maybe wasn't visible or wasn't apparent at the time.
00:11:41:17 - 00:12:05:21
DREA
And so, it was important for me to kind of think deeper about, you know, the mental and psychological part of the game, golf being by far and away the most mental game. And I think many, many folks would argue that if you play it, you know, it. So the swing thought is a common thing that's discussed. You know, as a player, you know, you're always concerned about what's my swing thought here and how simple should it be.
00:12:05:21 - 00:12:23:23
DREA
But then how complicated as a kid or shit. Oh my God, I just thought this thing and and then I just shanked it, you know? And so going deep with worry, trying to understand, how he's approached his mental game over the years was really fascinating to me. And so I wanted to figure how to visualize that in the film.
00:12:23:23 - 00:12:57:23
DREA
And at Augusta during that round. And so, you know, it all kind of starts where, you know, he's describing the setting. You know, he said it was like a the atmosphere was electric. It was like a boxing match, you know, like a big ring heavyweight fight. You know, you got Bryson coming through the crowd, high fiving, you know, and there's Rory and, he had, he had talked to doctor Bob who, you know, said, look, Rory said, look, I was I was feeling good going in there, but I was nervous about my pairing with Bryson.
00:12:58:04 - 00:13:16:13
DREA
And so he he had to think about how he was going to deal with that and talked about was like, just ignore. Just ignore it. Just stay in your own world. And so we start the film as Rory is approaching the first tee and he's like, look, I just had to figure out how to get into my own little world.
00:13:16:13 - 00:13:37:18
DREA
And so the idea was to essentially shoot these moments with him where it's rare to ever be at Augusta without crowds. Right? So here we are with just Rory in a sea of green. And I was like, man, this we could take advantage. Like, what if we created this motif where he could go into a Gilmore world, you know?
00:13:37:18 - 00:13:57:14
DREA
So we do that right on the first tee there, right where everything kind of disappears. We kind of, you know, we sort of loosely fray, match the broadcast to him with nobody there. And that kind of sets up kind of the first instance of using that kind of language. And then we build on it. You know, he loses his lead, he's tied after Hogan.
00:13:57:14 - 00:14:16:19
DREA
He goes to hole two and he's like, oh God, I'm just I'm just trying to like stay on track here. But it's easier said than done. And it's like then you just see this sort of flash, the frame kind of fragments, and you catch a little lip of a bunker. And then there he is. Sure enough, he ends up in the bunker right on L2, and then he's got to keep pushing forward.
00:14:16:19 - 00:14:32:11
DREA
And so the idea was to use that motif as a way to, you know, show his internal state and then track it over time so that it's not always, you know, negative. I think on 15 is when it starts getting kind of exciting. And now it's, you know, you're.
00:14:32:11 - 00:14:33:12
DANIEL
Seeing a little brighter.
00:14:33:13 - 00:14:44:12
DREA
But wider. Yeah. And so you kind of track that over time and it becomes a thing that sort of shape shifts based on where he's at. It is round and how he's feeling kind of mentally and emotionally.
00:14:44:14 - 00:14:50:18
DANIEL
Did you have like a pinch me a moment all while you're in production on that? I mean, I'm sure it was like intense. You're probably under the clock,
00:14:50:18 - 00:14:59:21
DANIEL
but that's like a filmmaker's dream to just shoot at Augusta with Rory and former Masters champ is probably like the one Hall pass you can do to to film that.
00:14:59:23 - 00:15:06:11
DREA
Yeah. It was I mean, look, every every, every day we got to film with worry was a pinch me moment. I
00:15:06:11 - 00:15:24:06
DREA
mean, we found ourselves in Northern Ireland and, you know, it had rained all day. We'd go up to Giant's Causeway, which is this incredible nature reserve. You know, there was a volcano that erupted millions of years ago and created these really special hexagon like stones that created this impressive formation.
00:15:24:07 - 00:15:39:22
DREA
That's a real landmark in Northern Ireland. And Rory and his team, you know, we're keen to go up there. And they did some photo stuff there and we're like, man, let's shoot us. Let's shoot a little subset with him in the green jacket there. And I wanted to just kind of create this connection between the green of Augusta and the green of Northern Ireland.
00:15:39:22 - 00:16:00:06
DREA
And so we brought the jacket there, and it rained all day. And then right when we had our little 15 minute window, boom, sun peeks, there's worry. We get this great shot. And it was like it was like a whoa moment. My DP was like, Matt, right? Like we got just take a moment, and just sort of realize, like, you know, where we're at, what we're doing because it's rare.
00:16:00:06 - 00:16:10:21
DREA
You're right. You know, you often just run and, you know, it's rare to be able to just take a beat and have a moment. So we were fortunate to have a few of those. Yeah. It was in a special.
00:16:10:23 - 00:16:19:23
DANIEL
Yeah. My, my wife and I watched it together. She was like, oh my gosh, you have to ask how we got that last shot. That was an epic last shot to to end the film.
00:16:20:01 - 00:16:43:00
DREA
Yeah, yeah, it was great. I mean, those guys were. Yeah, one of our first creative calls with Rory and his team, Giant's Causeway came up as a place that they just were like, hey, this place is really fascinating and interesting. Maybe it's of interest to you. And so they were really great in that respect. It was like they would kind of throw out things that, hey, you know, here's here's something you might want to think about, you know, have, you know, if if it's something that sparks interest, you know, we can pursue it.
00:16:43:02 - 00:17:04:15
DREA
And that one definitely did. I thought, okay, because, you know, like, Rory doesn't, you know, talk a lot about Northern Ireland and its political history. It past and and rightfully so. I mean, he grew up in an era just on the other side of that. You know, his parents certainly felt all of that. And they were right in the middle of that when they were coming up.
00:17:04:15 - 00:17:17:18
DREA
But fortunately, Rory didn't have to endure a lot of those challenges. But I still felt it was important to be able to connect Northern Ireland at some capacity at the Giant's Causeway, you know, seemed like a an interesting way to do that.
00:17:17:19 - 00:17:31:08
DANIEL
Totally. And you mentioned your DP, David Boland. I actually I didn't know he shot this before I watched it. And then at the end of he saw the credits and I feel like every sports talk I've watched the last couple of years, he shot it and I've loved it. What was it like working with him?
00:17:31:10 - 00:17:52:10
DREA
Well, it's funny actually, so I worked with two DPS, so I yeah. So Billy Pena shot the, shot the first master interview in Jupiter and then shot the stuff in Ireland. And then Billy had a schedule conflict that came up in December because the Augusta dates were constantly shifting, I'm sure, and Rory's dates were constantly shifting. And so, yeah.
00:17:52:10 - 00:18:10:17
DREA
So fortunately, we were able to bring on David to help, help get us over the line. So David came out to Augusta, which was fantastic, but it was a full collaborative effort. You know, I did a lot of the pre-production with Billy. We walked that course. We came up with a lot of ideas, and then David was able to come on board and help us, help us get it over, over the line.
00:18:10:17 - 00:18:16:10
DREA
And then David also helped us with a bunch of the other interviews. We shot Rory, second master at Augusta as well.
00:18:16:11 - 00:18:20:01
DANIEL
Yeah, that was a beautiful interview. And it looks like the press conference room, I think.
00:18:20:02 - 00:18:36:16
DREA
Yeah, the press room. So yeah, that that worked out real nice. And and that's what's helped like in a project like this. It's like, you know, sometimes you only get, you know, one shot at a big interview, you know, with an athlete who's got a really packed schedule. So it was great to be able to sit down a second time and really dive into some follow up stuff.
00:18:36:16 - 00:18:57:01
DREA
We had a chance to dig into the edit, so I find that to always be super beneficial. And of course we were in Ireland, we did a little home tour, so we're in the car just cruising around and it's more casual, laid back, and we got some really, talked about some really great moments in his life and career, and that's what he kind of guided to that.
00:18:57:03 - 00:19:15:14
DREA
You know, there's that moment in the film, right around the whole ten where he's talking about, hey, it wasn't just 2011 where things went sideways. It was like every year after that, right? Have a chance and I'd miss it. I'd have a chance. And I was like, you know, 2012 was this, 2013 was that 2014 was that 2015?
00:19:15:14 - 00:19:29:19
DREA
I was just like, well, this is it. There's going to be a scene which had to figure out which is so, so yeah, you know, I mean, that's what's cool about documentary. It's like you can plan all you want and then it's just you got to just get in there because a lot of these moments will just surprise you.
00:19:29:21 - 00:19:47:15
DANIEL
know watching Rory's, you know, second, speech ceremony this weekend. He obviously was pretty, emotional and impacted by his parents. How was working with them? And, you know, kind of hearing their side of the story that hasn't really, you know, for my knowledge, been super public up to this point.
00:19:47:17 - 00:20:11:15
DREA
Yeah. I mean, look, his, his parents are incredible. They they unlocked the film. They really did. You know, they don't do interviews. They don't do media. There's maybe a couple clips of them from you. I mean, you saw them in the film. I mean, there's that's literally all that exists from 20 plus years ago. This, these little moments of them talking to the local BBC or TV station.
00:20:11:15 - 00:20:29:19
DREA
But there's there's little to nothing out there because they just, they keep it quiet and low key. But after we did our first big sit down with Rory after that, he said, you know, the guys, it was a that was a good conversation and I think it'd be great if my parents could be part of this, so let me see if they'd be interested.
00:20:29:19 - 00:20:49:15
DREA
And so it took some time. Meanwhile, we had no time to waste, so we had to move forward as if those interviews may never happen for various reasons. And so we started cutting. We did a, you know, big interview with his swing coach, Michael Bannon, who was fantastic to talk to. We had another great interview with JP Fitzgerald, his former caddie, and they were great interviews.
00:20:49:15 - 00:21:11:19
DREA
And so we cut a bunch of stuff, like we cut a lot of scenes with those guys helping to kind of, you know, hold them up and give those scene some shape. And then once we finally got word that Rosie and Jerry were up for it, those didn't even come until December, literally second week of December. So we we did those interviews, and then we basically had to go recut everything.
00:21:11:21 - 00:21:36:04
DREA
And so we recut all these scenes with them. And I mean, our first big cat was do before the Christmas holiday. Wow. The second cabin was due in January 3rd at the end of January. So it was just like all systems go. But those interviews so literally unlocked the film. You know, they're inside their, you know, just their stories about how how this whole thing came about were incredible.
00:21:36:09 - 00:21:40:09
DREA
You know, they really gave the film a lot of color, a lot of depth.
00:21:40:11 - 00:21:53:03
DANIEL
And I know it was a sprint to the finish. I thought after watching it, you know, kind of seeing that moment he had with them Sunday was just like really special. How does the film sit with you now? I know that he just went back to back.
00:21:53:05 - 00:22:18:05
DREA
Yeah. I mean, I think what I saw there because, you know, for those who may not know, his parents weren't there last year by design, and they hadn't been coming for for a handful of years. You know, for those who've seen the film and, and those who haven't, it's not much of a spoiler, but his dad tells a little story in there that, like, every year around Masters time, you know, Rory just wasn't very right.
00:22:18:07 - 00:22:36:14
DREA
He did a little edgy. He called it, you know, rightfully so. Right. It wasn't like he tried doing this once or twice or three year for talking like, you know, battling 13, 14 years. At one of those years out of the gate, he had a chance to actually seal the deal and he let it slip away. So you understand where the edge comes from.
00:22:36:16 - 00:22:55:03
DREA
So his parents didn't show up last year just to give him space, you know, no distractions. And so yeah, to see this year see them there. And he had this great moment in their little award ceremony where he's like, yeah I asked my parents to come out like, no, no, no, we don't you know, we don't want to mess it up because last year you did so well.
00:22:55:03 - 00:23:14:20
DREA
So we'll just keep it cool. And he's like, guys you're coming this year. And he said, don't see. You know you're you're not the reason why I won last year. Right. Like it's okay. So it was great I, I was just I haven't had a chance to finish the whole article. But I just saw I saw the headline this morning that in the New York Times, they just did a little piece on Rory.
00:23:14:21 - 00:23:20:11
DREA
It was like last year's win was for the world. This year's win was for him and his family.
00:23:20:13 - 00:23:27:11
DANIEL
That's a good line. Did he did you get to talk to him like post-screening to hint that he enjoy the film.
00:23:27:13 - 00:23:50:06
DREA
Yeah I mean you know this is always, there's always that point in the, in the process where it's like okay now we're going to share it, you know. And we've done that with every one of our projects. You know, starting back, I did a feature film about Claressa Shields, a young female boxer from Flint, Michigan. Incredible story. She went on to win the gold medal in London, become the first woman ever to win a gold medal in the boxing.
00:23:50:08 - 00:24:06:14
DREA
And we had spent at that point almost three years with her. Her coach, family, friends. But, you know, the film is a it's it goes deep. You know, we saw a lot she went through a lot. And so it came time to share the film. And there's always this moment where it's like, okay, how are they going to take it?
00:24:06:14 - 00:24:26:03
DREA
Is it is it going to be you know, it's going to be two reel, which is the thing. Right? Especially in today's age of, you know, image, persona and all of that. And I remember when she watched it, first thing she said, she was like, yeah, that was it. You guys kept it real. And it was like, okay.
00:24:26:05 - 00:24:28:01
DANIEL
The best compliment you could get.
00:24:28:03 - 00:24:56:02
DREA
Yeah. So, so with Rory, you know, same thing. It's always like, okay, all right. How you know, how's this going to go? And yeah, he and his team came back with, with with with two thumbs up. They were great. They, Yeah, they seem to really enjoy the film and. Yeah. Didn't didn't have any, you know, critical feedback, except there was a couple absences where some of the folks we interviewed wanted us to stay in the white shot and they didn't want it.
00:24:56:02 - 00:25:16:19
DREA
They didn't want to see themselves so close up. So there was a there was a vanity component. But outside of that, outside of the vanity comment, very supportive. And that's great. I mean, when you know, when you're able to work with folks, I mean, look, this is a, you know, you're creating this relationship in days and weeks and, and in some cases every project's different.
00:25:16:19 - 00:25:34:12
DREA
There's some instances where you have months and years, you know, to develop these relationships and documentary. But, you know, for, for a story like this that has all these other kind of entities that are involved, and there's timelines and they want to get it out at a certain point because of the the Masters next year. It just adds different pressures.
00:25:34:12 - 00:25:54:16
DREA
And so, you know, it was very important for us and for my producing team and, you know, hats off to Dan Lindsey and to Ben Piner, our producers. We carved out time when we went down to Jupiter ahead of the big interview with Rory, where we chatted, you know, here and there through his team before that. But we said, look, we got to sit down like, let's go have lunch.
00:25:54:16 - 00:26:18:22
DREA
And Rory cleared his calendar and we went just had like a two, 2.5 hour lunch. And just like, we're able to talk shop and, you know, really hear from him about, you know, his story. What's important to him, and how we're thinking about things and, and, you know, having this sort of creative dialog right from the beginning.
00:26:18:22 - 00:26:38:06
DREA
So that it's, it's clear that there's a this is a two way street. I'm here to do the story justice, but we're also here to tell a version of the story. There's going to be a filmmaker's point of view here, but it was very important to start just with setting the table and making sure that we were on the same page.
00:26:38:07 - 00:26:58:23
DANIEL
Yeah, that makes sense. And I enjoyed it from that point. Like you said, it wasn't, the career and life of Rory McIlroy. It was like a very like moment in time that led into it. And so I have a question now, you mentioned the the framing. What's your approach on this one? Obviously you have your a cam looking direct to camera.
00:26:58:23 - 00:27:11:19
DANIEL
How do you go about approaching that in documentary? I think it's it's obviously something more. We've seen a versus a traditional off camera. I thought it worked really well in this instance. I mean, you still have your off angles, but how do you go about approaching that as a director?
00:27:11:21 - 00:27:30:14
DREA
Yeah. It's interesting. I look, I think again, every project to me is different. There's some where maybe they're more follow doc, maybe there's more verité. You're living in stuff. So the interview becomes less important visually, and it's more about gathering story and audio that can live under stuff. With this, it was very much going to be a set piece interview.
00:27:30:14 - 00:27:51:13
DREA
And so I, I decided early on that with Rory, we would do something kind of grand and have him center frame looking direct to camera to really connect with the audience. And then we shot two additional cameras. Those three cameras total and those other two cameras. One was kind of a medium, you know, that sort of lived in a similar kind of low angle medium zone.
00:27:51:13 - 00:28:09:11
DREA
And then one was a higher angle thing. I like that one had it kind of moved around a little bit. Yeah. That one was kind of nice. I like that one too. So they we did that and then but with everybody else I treated them a little more classically. It was just like a little more classic. Nobody's direct to camera there, slightly off angle.
00:28:09:13 - 00:28:30:01
DREA
You've got something kind of a little bit wider environmental, but they're favoring one side of the frame or the other. And then I'm always a fan of an intimate close up, like you can never go wrong with that, you know? I mean, if I had to choose, I would just shoot that. I wanted to, you know? So yeah, that was kind of a decision that was made early on.
00:28:30:01 - 00:28:44:12
DREA
And again, I mean, sometimes you're making these decisions that you're just like, okay, here we go. You know, like it felt right in the moment. But again, you're like, okay, we're just starting in the things moving fast and quick, but here we go. And so we stuck to it. And that became the language for the interviews.
00:28:44:14 - 00:29:11:04
DANIEL
Well, just to, close on the project, I want to get into your career a little bit as we close, but I think, you know, for me, I just wanted to say thank you as like, I was inspired by this film and really from from Rory. You mentioned, like, a filmmaker's point of view, but the the point of view I took was I just saw a lot of parallels between, like, our business and what Rory was going through, where I mean, I was, you know, this business is like very hard.
00:29:11:04 - 00:29:28:20
DANIEL
And it's not always like the most talented who succeed. A lot of different things have to go right. That's definitely been my experience. But I think what I took from it was that, like Rory just like, never gave up. Just like he kept getting back up there. He was like willing to be the heartbreak and like he eventually got his dream.
00:29:28:20 - 00:29:35:10
DANIEL
So I was, you know, inspired by that. And the different parallels, as I'm sure you see it in our business as well.
00:29:35:12 - 00:30:04:18
DREA
Yeah. I mean, look worries Rory story is universal, right? It's universal. It's, you know, early on when we were, you know, doing early iterations of kind of concepting and thinking it through, it's like, you know, you just see all these great parallels, you know, whether it's a story of you know, the white whale, right. You know, he became obsessed with this place to the point where it almost it almost took him down.
00:30:04:20 - 00:30:23:20
DREA
Right. But in the end, he was finally able to to get it done. Or in the case of Sisyphus, right. You know, the boulder just constantly being pushed up the hill to only have it roll right back down on you, you know. But he was he was committed to it and he was willing to put in the work and and look, I think that's what makes this story incredible too.
00:30:23:20 - 00:30:43:06
DREA
It's like I mean, it starts out as this innocent dream, you know, and I think, you know, as a kid who grew up playing sport, I played sport for fun first and foremost. And then, yeah, I started to get better at it. And yeah, I played, you know, at a pretty high level on different teams and traveled and, you know, was successful with my team.
00:30:43:06 - 00:31:00:13
DREA
You know, as a young, young kid and through high school. But it was it was always about the game and was always about the love of the game. And and I think you see that in Rory's story, hands down, first and foremost. And I think in today's sort of world, I've got two girls myself. Both are in the sport, they love soccer.
00:31:00:14 - 00:31:16:01
DREA
And it's like, yeah, am I going to be like that? Dad is like, well, you got to go do this camp and do this training and this is your track and you're going to go D1, or am I going to be the dad? That's like, if you love this, I'll support you. But, you know, I got to see if I see your commitment in it.
00:31:16:01 - 00:31:38:08
DREA
And you're eager and you want more, I'll find ways to provide more and we'll figure out how, you know, you can do more or you can level out. But it's very much about the love of the game and and passion and Rory, that's that's the epitome of his story and his experience with the sport. And I think that's what makes his story so incredible, so universal, and so inspiring.
00:31:38:10 - 00:31:57:21
DANIEL
Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned, you know, passion, looking at your career. You know, I'm, I'm inspired by like kind of the, the depth and breadth of it. Like I think it's easy to kind of be like put in the box in this business on like you're either just a documentary make filmmaker or just a sports documentary filmmaker, but you've done commercial work.
00:31:57:21 - 00:32:06:02
DANIEL
You've done like human interest doc, sports doc. How have you kind of kept that that range throughout your career?
00:32:06:04 - 00:32:43:00
DREA
Yeah, I mean, I you know, when I look back on it, I mean, I, you know, there's no real you know, there's not a formula to any of this. It's really again, it to me, it also just comes back to passion. It's like where my where do my interests lie. What am I interested in. In in exploring, you know, every project has come about in so many different ways, but what's always there, first and foremost is like a genuine curiosity, you know, a genuine curiosity, whether that's about the person or that's about the issue.
00:32:43:02 - 00:33:15:02
DREA
But it's it's always about a genuine curiosity. And I think that's to me, that's, that's that's one of the greatest attributes of any filmmaker. Storyteller is like, you know, how how curious are you and how do you feed that curiosity? And, you know, where can that lead? You know, where does that lead in terms of the story, in terms of the team that you create around the work that you do and finding ways to, you know, involve others and bring people into the fold because the business is like, you don't make these things by yourself.
00:33:15:08 - 00:33:39:13
DREA
You know, it's these are these are really challenging projects. And so for so many different reasons. And so you really need a supportive team. And I've been fortunate to be able to partner with some great producers, great editors, DP's, you name it. But for me personally, it always comes back to just trying to be as kind of open, honest and connected to whomever it is that I'm working with and whatever story I'm trying to tell.
00:33:39:15 - 00:34:01:01
DANIEL
Well, that's a great transition to. My last question for you is, I'm, about to start pre-production on my very first feature documentary, which I'm stoked about. It's been a much long road and wait, but we're finally getting here. So I'm curious the advice you have for being any other you know, first time documentary feature directors out there.
00:34:01:03 - 00:34:28:17
DREA
Oh, baby. Yeah. I mean, look, I think, you know, if you're committed, if you're committed to the effort, you know, it just, you know, you know how it goes. I mean, you've done some some short form stuff like, a feature doc is it's a megillah. You know, these things are megillah, but it's like there's always going to be, you know, just just when the when the mountain looks, you know, insurmountable looks a bit too steep.
00:34:28:19 - 00:34:46:10
DREA
You know, there's a little breakthrough. I mean, look, I think for me, it's like I've always got this, like, instinct I think is so critical, whether it's a feature commercial or whatever it is. Instinct, I think is so important. And I think that's the thing
00:34:46:16 - 00:35:02:07
DREA
that if you can hone in on your instinct and be open to your instinct, knowing that like folks are going to question that and they're going to, you know, interrogate that instinct and sometimes for the right reasons, you know, and you do need to interrogate, you know, your own ideas.
00:35:02:07 - 00:35:07:03
DREA
But there's there's this instinct. And I think you got to stay true to that feeling.
00:35:07:05 - 00:35:15:09
DREA
And that feeling may produce something that shapes and shifts over time. Of course, it's going to evolve from the beginning seed of an idea.
00:35:15:11 - 00:35:40:09
DREA
But I have found at least in my work, that there's an instinctual kind of like sense of what a story is or what the story may, may be or how I want it to kind of feel and look and like what they, you know, when I step back, like, what's the kind of feeling does it give, you know, the shades or the shades darker and the shades lighter, you know, what's the energy feel like?
00:35:40:11 - 00:35:58:07
DREA
You know, and is it open and wide and cinematic or is it kind of more intense? It's more of a never, you know, it's it more appealing, like nervous, anxious energy, you know, in some stories ebb and flow and they go between those two spaces. But I think instinct is the thing that I would call out as the thing to hold on to and trust.
00:35:58:08 - 00:36:11:08
DREA
Trust yourself in the process. Yeah. Make it a feature. There's going to be there's potholes all over the place. There's landmines everywhere. But, yeah, stay, stay true to that feeling that you have early on. Trust us.
00:36:11:10 - 00:36:28:01
DANIEL
Okay. That's great. And what would you say kind of as a follow up, as I would say, my probably, I guess, struggle, you would say is like, actually, I think I do trust my instincts. I think I have good instincts, but I think that like imposter syndrome or the little whispers that it's, you know, like, oh, he's never done this before.
00:36:28:03 - 00:36:33:10
DANIEL
Like, how do you kind of balance, you know, is that just come with experience.
00:36:33:12 - 00:36:57:06
DREA
Man? I mean, that's why that moment in the film is so great when Rory goes there and he describes that feeling of after he, you know, quickly, you know, gets three, three majors in four years and now the only one left the missing piece is the masters. And that next year it's for the Grand Slam. And he starts to get coffee.
00:36:57:08 - 00:37:21:19
DREA
And he's like oh my god. And the names you know it's like oh Jack and Tiger. His idol. And so to hear Rory talk openly about imposter syndrome and feeling like maybe he's not quite there, I mean I, I could 100% relate. I mean, I have that all the time. You know, I mean, he, he even on projects where I'm like, oh, yeah, it's me.
00:37:21:19 - 00:37:41:07
DREA
You know, this is my third feature. I've done this before. Yeah, I've done, you know, almost like three series are, you know, maybe my fourth feature, third feature, like, and it's like, even though you've done it before, it's like, I trust myself, but then you come into contact with others, you start to this and that and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait.
00:37:41:07 - 00:38:15:21
DREA
I feel like we're good here. Like, am I good? Am I not good? Like, oh, come on. So the doubt still creeps in. And that's why I'm like again, to me, it's just like coming back to that place. And I think Chris, Rory's story is indicative of that. Right? It was like, in so many ways, when you step back from the film and look at his story, here's a kid who grew up plant free, just loving the game, playing free, living in the moment, 54 holes in a day at his local, you know, Hollywood course, blasts on the scene as a as a great amateur and just takes the golf world by storm.
00:38:15:23 - 00:38:33:15
DREA
And then he shows up with a four shot lead in 2011, ready to win the Masters. And it unravels because, he says himself, I was trying to be somebody I wasn't right, I was trying to be somebody I wasn't. I was there to do a job, but I play better when I'm jovial, a little happy go lucky, right?
00:38:33:19 - 00:38:51:12
DREA
And I think that's that's the thing. He was trying to be something he wasn't. And so it took him years to figure out how to let go. And so, you know, I think filmmaking is a very similar thing where it's like, you know, you're like, okay, well, I did it once. Okay, I've got it. But then the next one just hits you in different ways.
00:38:51:15 - 00:39:22:01
DREA
Every, every, every film's different. Every round of golf, every Masters has been different for Rory. And it's like to be able to, trust when things may feel unfamiliar. You know, trust that, like, okay, I can get through this and be open to opportunities, right? Like, let let the, you know, we're supposed to shoot Rory in October. And to be honest, we weren't we were gunning for it, but we weren't we weren't ready story wise.
00:39:22:01 - 00:39:37:08
DREA
And we were going to do a whole bunch of other stuff there on the course that would have just, like, gotten in the way. But things had evolved yet. So when we pushed to December, it was like, oh my God, that's going to be so late in the edit. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. But then it gave us an opportunity to go over think.
00:39:37:08 - 00:39:57:11
DREA
So you know I think, you know when it comes back to like you know advice. It's like trust yourself your instincts, but also be open to all those little curveballs because they're going to they're going to come and, and you just got to turn, turn those lemons, you know, into something sweet as quickly as possible sometimes.
00:39:57:13 - 00:40:08:23
DANIEL
Yeah, yeah. I love bringing that back to Rory's journey. And because I think my other takeaway, too, is like, Rory wasn't like he wasn't winning because lack of talent, like, the guy is arguably the most talented golfer in his profession, you know.
00:40:08:23 - 00:40:17:09
DREA
Laid off outside of the majors. He was winning every damn time. I mean, he was winning dozens of PGA events. I mean, crazy numbers, to be honest.
00:40:17:11 - 00:40:36:17
DANIEL
Right. And so, you know, same with this. It's not always, you know, the most talented that succeed in our business as well. So, I really appreciate the advice. I will take it to heart as we, as we ramp up pre-production. And, Trey, thank you so much for coming on frame by frame. While I love the conversation, I love the film.
00:40:36:17 - 00:40:45:19
DANIEL
Make sure you guys watch it on on Prime Video if you watch it this week, fresh off the Masters. It's really well done and I think it tells the story as we mentioned, that's inspiring for many.
00:40:46:01 - 00:41:03:23
Speaker 1
so much for watching and listening to this episode of Frame by Frame. I hope it was insightful and helpful. I'll be rolling out more episodes as we make our return back to being a little more consistent with the content. There's a lot going on in my personal life along with running my media, but I love doing this podcast and hope you enjoy it too.
00:41:04:03 - 00:41:09:17
Speaker 1
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